Does Anyone Make a Living Doing Public Art? A Money Story with Liz LaManche

Liz LaManche (she/they) is an artist on a mission to add more color and fun to the world through big art in public places and small art in weird places.

Hannah Cole: Tell me about what brought you to a place where you wanted to learn more about taxes and getting your money organized.

Liz LaManche: I spent a bunch of years in software doing UX/UI consulting, so I had practice doing that, and getting decent rates, and doing contract negotiations, so that wasn’t the hard part. The hard part has been figuring out what artists get paid, and all that learning I talked to you about. Being avoidant about money in general. Not wanting to know my budget, not keeping track of receipts, even though at the end of the year I had this big terrible accounting project of tallying all my receipts. 

You’re the first person who has been able to teach me in a calm, accessible way. I had old men accountants who said they would teach me, but then actually just asked for my numbers which they would just enter into their system. When I would ask them questions, they would say, “Just read the instructions on the form.”
The fact that you’re able to realize in a psychological way what is going on with people, gently and realistically, has been really nice.

This was part of a program I set myself where I was intending to get better at the financial thing, and set myself up better. I’m examining, “What are my attitudes? What is keeping me from getting specific? From actually tackling this stuff?” You helped with the specifics--as in, here’s how to do this and that.

I think psychologically, I bounce between overfunctioning and underfunctioning. I can’t deal, and then I bounce back. I have a tendency to want to get everything done perfectly, then I can’t deal anymore. You’ve been very helpful about putting it all in perspective. You say, if you improve one thing, you’re headed in the right direction. It doesn’t need to be all perfect immediately. 

I would go from ignoring my receipts for months, to “I have to enter every 50 cent coffee I ever get into this spreadsheet.”

HC: What did you observe in your transition from consulting work to the art world?

LL: Being up front with clear communication took practice. I got good at writing contracts that were basically in English that people normally speak, but take care of contingencies that both parties actually care about. You need to spell it all out in an understandable way, and to have it covered in a contract. A lot of my artwork is commissions and consulting.

HC: So you really have to use contracts for that. 

LL: Yeah. You have to lay out what is going to be done in this project.

HC: Can you describe your art?

LL: I’m doing public art and murals. I’m also working with an organization that helps cities and towns work on their pedestrian access, safer streets, bikeways, and designing asphalt art. I make artistic crosswalks, intersections, and pathways. I get to use my architecture background, making urban environments more beautiful, and sustaining human beings. It has been helpful coming from being an architecture major. First, you have to figure out what the client wants and needs, and what environment the client is in. Then you design something bespoke to solve those problems and make something that is both beautiful and usable within its environment and neighborhood. 

Business skills have helped a lot in the project work I’m doing. Being able to form a relationship with clients where they feel taken care of, and they are sure I know what I’m doing, because I approach things like a pro, I know what the issues are, and I can get them a solution that works for them. I show up and behave like a professional. People dealing with artists are a bit afraid about that.

HC: Has there been anything particularly helpful that you have learned?

LL: I had some habits that helped me already. I can do math, I had business bank accounts, I can use spreadsheets. But others you helped me a lot with were--I couldn’t face my receipts, and keep a running tally of what was going on. I couldn’t look at my actual financial situation. I would just try to get money coming in and hope that things worked out. Then I would panic if the account balance got too low. 

Following your program, I’ve been able to get a handle on things, know where I’m at, develop some good habits (if not make and stick to an actual plan). Things like getting more methodical about putting money aside, being able to check on it, that sort of thing. Being able to get on top of the quarterly tax thing, and what I should be doing taxwise, has made me a lot happier and calmer. 

HC: That stuff provokes so much anxiety.

LL: It’s just astonishing that no other tax person has gotten me to do quarterlies ever.

HC: I’m so proud

LL: One of the things I’m working on now is trying to learn more about what artists are getting paid, in my field and in others. I want to learn more about what’s realistic. Because there’s so much secrecy around money all the time. That doesn’t serve us well.

I spent some time in circus performance doing aerial dance, and there’s a lot of talk there about “charge what you’re worth” and “don’t undercut others,” and how to get people a living wage.

The same is true in performance. There’s the thing or service you’re selling, and then there’s the years of work and study that made you good at doing that thing. There's more overhead than people expect.

I would love for art to be a sustainable thing for more people. Because it's such an important thing for our culture, and for being able to sustain ourselves as a society.

There’s awe and beauty--those uplifting feelings. In public art, too - you’re getting beautiful things out to people who are just getting through their day, in what would otherwise be a dull streetscape. It might make their day better.

I’ve heard about people quoting extremely low rates, basically doing things for free. That’s problematic because it leads to that being the expectation. And there should be a graduated scale based on your experience, and the type of work and that sort of thing. But that’s the question that we run into in circus arts, too. There has to be a place for people to start, but people commissioning work need to realize there’s a difference in the final quality, too.

I’m hoping that there is a tier for professional artists to stay professional and make a career of it.

People look at me as someone who is successful, because I’ve done projects that are known around town. [But I’m still wondering], “Does anyone get a living wage doing public art?”

I Like Your Work Podcast: How to Pay Yourself

In my last episode of the I Like Your Work Podcast, I shared the one key thing you need to do to get started with control of your numbers in your creative practice. Now I’m answering the question behind why you haven't done it yet: how to pay yourself.

If you’re ready to de-stress your taxes, save time and feel understood so you have the freedom to create your biggest, boldest work, click below to join the FREE masterclass at Sunlight Tax: De-Stress Your Taxes and Get Back to the Studio (for Creators)

Business and Personal Accounts: Keep ’em Separated

This article originally appeared in ArtFCity on 6/13/17. Updated 7/23/2021.

There are a million meaningful reasons to operate an arts business, from creating revelatory art experiences for the public, to a commitment to a tradition or the love of making hand-crafted objects. But at the end of the day, if it is a for-profit business (and not, say, a non-profit), a major purpose is to make money to pay for the expenses of living. Why, then, is it so important to keep the business financial transactions separate from our personal ones?

The reasons are simple. It protects you from tax trouble and legal trouble. And it’s the law.

Let’s say you operate a letterpress. Your core income is from printing high-end wedding invitations, but your true love is printing full color publicity posters for rock bands. This is a totally respectable business model, and while you love what you do, you are definitely earning a living. But the business part has never been your strong suit, and you have been depositing your printing business money into your personal checking account, and using that same account for personal expenses like buying groceries and clothes, and paying rent.

Now let’s say that after a string of bad years in your printing business due to forces beyond your control—a boycott of your state because of a recently passed piece of transphobic legislation, for example—you get audited. So far, this is all pretty normal—people with a string of losses in their arts business will tend to get targeted for audit, because the IRS wants to check that the business is legitimate, and not a hobby or a tax shelter. Because your printing business is generally sound, and the recent downturn is explainable and not within your control, you can probably expect to come out of this audit unscathed.

But when the IRS looks at your bank records, they see one account where business and personal items mix together. To them, this is a strong indication that your business is a personal hobby, and not something you take seriously or treat in a businesslike manner. They deem it a hobby, and disallow your recent losses, resulting in you having to pay back the difference in taxes, plus penalties and interest. It totally sucks to be in this boat, and you could likely have avoided it if you had a separate business account, and you kept it clean of personal expenses. 

The IRS has a nine-point list of factors they consider when judging whether your arts business is a bona fide business or a hobby. They give a lot of weight to the separation of your business and personal accounts.

All businesses are run by individuals. When you operate a sole proprietorship and file a Schedule C for it on your personal tax return, you have no legal separation between yourself and your business. Millions of small businesses in the US operate this way, and when you’re small and not incurring much liability, it’s perfectly fine to do so. But a snag arises when you get in legal trouble.

Let’s say that you, Arty McArtist, are operating a sole proprietorship arts business. You make large wooden sculptures, and during your latest installation, one of the installers is crushed when your sculpture falls on top of him, and he can never work again. The worker decides to sue. Because there is no legal separation between you, Arty McArtist the person, and Arty McArtist the arts business, when he sues you, he can not only go after the assets of your business – your tools, your studio, your inventory – he can also go after your personal assets – your home, your car, and your kids’ college fund. That could sink you. 

There is a way to eliminate the personal legal exposure that this nightmare scenario illustrates. You can make your business its own separate legal entity. This has other benefits on top – some corporate structures allow you to raise capital by issuing shares, and potentially reduce your self employment tax – but the liability protection is the major consideration for most smaller businesses. There are different options, including partnerships, C corporations and S corporations, (and I won’t go into detail on them here), but a very common and flexible one is the Limited Liability Corporation (LLC). The main point of becoming an LLC for most small businesses is to protect their personal assets from a lawsuit. This separation between the individual and the business is referred to in law (and rather poetically, at that) as “the corporate veil.”

As an accountant, I want to warn you against the mistake that people make here. When you form an LLC, it becomes critically important that the business entity really is separate from the person running the business. The “corporate veil” must be real. Among other things, this means you must track your business books and keep a separate business bank account. If you go to the trouble and expense of forming an LLC (or one of the other types of separate entity), you are agreeing to maintain that separation.

What happens if you don’t? If you get sued, the court can “pierce the corporate veil,” thus nullifying the benefits of an LLC. In other words, in a lawsuit, your business practices will come under scrutiny, and if you’re found to be acting as one and the same as your business, not as a separate, distinct entity, then that legal protection you thought you had drops away, and the plaintiff can come after your retirement fund, your house, your art collection, and your vacation fund.

So now that I’ve scared you, what can you do to prevent these awful scenarios from happening? Primarily, you want to operate in a businesslike manner. You need to keep your business accounts and personal accounts totally separate. If there are any credit cards that you use for both business and personal expenses, cut it out, and get a corporate card for the business.

A happy side effect of keeping your accounts separate is that your bookkeeping becomes a lot easier. When you have a separate business credit card and checking account, and you use them strictly for business reasons, there is no more combing through bank statements to figure out what is business and what is personal. Your hardest problem is just figuring out which legitimate business expense category to put each purchase into.

So if I’m earning money in my business and the point of having it is to make a living, how do I pay myself from my business account? Great question. You are allowed (and expected) to move money between accounts. When you invest your personal money into your business (a common occurrence!), it’s called a “owner’s contribution,” and that’s the category you file it under in your books. When you take money out of your business to pay for your personal living expenses, it’s called an “owner’s draw,” and likewise, you record it as such in your books. Note that you shouldn’t be using the corporate card to charge a gorgeous leather jacket at Prada and then booking that transaction as “owner’s draw” after the fact – though this is the way to correct that mistake, if you make it. The best practice is to withdraw a chunk of money, in a predictable, periodic fashion (like you’re paying yourself a salary).

So the simple takeaway here is clear. Keep your business books clean and businesslike. Separate your personal and business accounts. It simplifies your bookkeeping, it’s not hard to do, and the trouble it can keep you out of is worth all the effort.

I Like Your Work Podcast: Knowing Your Numbers and the One Best Thing You Can Do Now

When you know what your profit is, you unlock the power to know what things cost you, whether you need to raise your prices and how much you owe in taxes way before the deadline. So how do you do it, and what is the one key action step that will help you right now? Find out on the my latest mini episode of the I Like Your Work Podcast.

Money Story - Christopher Denise: Building Habits and Space to Focus on Your Creative Work

Christopher Denise (he/him) is an illustrator, writer, teacher, and lecturer. He has illustrated many critically acclaimed books for young readers including Alison McGhee’s Firefly Hollow, Rosemary Wells’ Following Grandfather, Anne Marie Pace’s Groundhug Day, as well as several in Brian Jacques’s Redwall series. Christopher lives with his wife and collaborator, Anika Denise, and their family on the coast of Rhode Island.

HC: Who are you, what are your pronouns, and what do you do?

CD: My name is Christopher Denise, my pronouns are him/his and I am an illustrator in primarily kids’ literature, and an educator. I teach in various programs. I have taught at RISD, in undergrad illustration, where I also attended, and recently in a Master’s program at Holland’s University. This Fall I am teaching at Montserrat College of Art.

HC: How did you get into the world of illustrating?

CD: I had been studying archeology and art history at St. Lawrence University. That led to studio classes and a greater interest in making my own imagery. Around that time I visited my brother at Rhode Island School of Design and found that the level of conversation there was completely different. I applied as a transfer student initially into the architecture department because I had no idea what an illustrator was. But when I got to RISD, I started taking illustration classes, and it was really satisfying. I liked telling stories with images, not particularly for kid lit [kid’s literature]—I just liked being a visual communicator. In my junior year I started freelancing, creating work for newspapers and educational publishers (textbooks). After graduation some of those images caught the attention of an editor in New York. 

HC: That’s a big lucky break. Can you explain more how you got in front of that critical editor?

CD: I did promotion. I sent out mailings and dropped off my portfolio at various publishers. I was very fortunate, because I ended up working with this editor for years.

Our first book together was The Fool of The World and the Flying Ship. That was a breakthrough moment. It was daunting, because the illustrator who had created a version of the story a few years prior had won a Caldecott Award. My version also got a good amount of attention. It got  starred reviews. I did interviews and book signings. But it didn’t sell many copies. The upside of good press but not a lot of sales was that was it allowed me to continue to work in “relative obscurity.” If The Fool of the World had been a huge financial success, and I had felt compelled to reproduce it, it could have been disastrous. Creative endeavors are challenging, but when they change because of the financial piece, it can change your relationship with the creative process. If you’re not connected with the work, but you’re making money, that can be challenging. 

HC: For a lot of creative people with amazing careers like yours, there is a Critical Moment. Can you talk more about how that happened for you?

CD: A part of it was luck, which is always nice. But I was ready. I was ready to take advantage of that opportunity. I had developed a practice and a discipline, so when opportunity arose, I could capitalize on it. I diversified my workflow so I could take on a project that was more time-consuming and less profitable. [It allowed me to] Be ready for an interesting opportunity. 

That led to me being introduced to Brian Jacques, the author of the Redwall series. He wrote a picture book for me to illustrate. It offered me another chance to grow my work artistically. 

In regard to the financial part—I was being paid more, so [ironically] I paid less attention to the business side of things. I was single, with no family, so I could do that. One thing I did do, against the advice of some family members, was invest in buying a house, which turned out to be a good decision. But I was working all the time and lacked balance. 

Having a successful career in the arts is not a static goal. It’s not something that you “achieve.” You develop a practice. Something that Sunlight Tax articles and Money Bootcamp talks have highlighted that resonated with me is that getting on top of your money is also a practice. Financial literacy is not just a tool that fixes things, it is a structure. My Uncle Frank used to tell this joke, “I bought this trunk organizer. I threw it the trunk two weeks ago, and damn if I looked in there yesterday, and this whole thing is still a mess.” So, in other words, you have to actively apply sound financial practices to your creative life. 

A practice builds empowerment, and as a result, freedom. Who doesn’t want freedom in their life? It allows time to focus on what gives you purpose in life. That looks like many things: a chance to support causes and people you believe in, a chance to spend more time with friends and family, and a chance to produce non-commercial work.

A career in Illustration is not a sprint, but a marathon. You need a structure. You need to a map that breaks the steps in the journey down so you know what to do, and when. It makes everything feel a lot more achievable. And it helps you get back on track if you go off in the weeds.

In the past, I would approach my project and finances without the map—I would barrel into the work and block out the rest of my life. I would get paid, and then retire all my debt. That felt great for about a week after I had finished. But that was fleeting, because new bills would arise, and a new cycle would start again. This led to both artistic and financial burnout.

HC: Something I see in so many of my Money Bootcamp members is that one of the key things that money allows is the space to rest. Can you talk about this idea of hustle vs. rest?

CD: A family will force you to take breaks from work! I’m married to a writer, so we do a lot of balancing. In the past I felt as though if I was not working, I was not working at being paid. That was frightening, because projects were long, and there was no sense of where I was financially. 

Now that I have more structure, I feel more comfortable taking some time off. I’ve become more efficient. When I get to the studio it’s “go time.” I know why I’m there, and what I'm supposed to be working on. I allow for mistakes. I can do that because I have a production schedule.

I have a few friends who are 8-10 years my senior, and are top-level character designs for animation. They warned me about burnout and that definitely caused me to pump the brakes a bit. I love illustration too much to let that happen. Nevertheless, I made some bad decisions, like passing up a trip to go back to Ireland to visit with family friends because I was on a deadline. When we had kids, I didn't want to miss that time. So much so that I took some capital from a book that did well, and built a studio here on my property, so I could be around. That allowed me more time with the kids but also forced me to really structure and balance my time.

So much of the world now [because of Covid and working from home] is getting a glimpse into that kind of balance.

Now when I’m having a good painting day, when there is flow, I’m ready. It’s a funny thing though—everyone develops their own studio practice. In the past, if someone said, “you have to do it this way,” there’s a pretty good chance I wouldn’t do it. But if they engage me and ask, “Here’s a project, how do you want to approach it?” then I’m all in. I’m independent or maybe just stubborn!

HC: A lot of creative worlds have their own unique and unspoken assumptions. Grant Conversano, a filmmaker in Money Bootcamp, was describing in a recent interview the unspoken codes they felt in the filmmaking world. Are there codes like this in the illustrating world?

CD: Yes. That you should get an agent. That’s how you get better contracts and get seen. I did not take that route for fifteen years of my career. I met independently with publishers and negotiated my own contracts. This was helpful in some ways—I knew what I was getting into.
It used to be that you sent out postcards, got in touch with people, and dropped off your portfolio. That aspect of the business is so different now. Within an afternoon you can get your website up and running and out there. Because of that, the market is flooded. There are so many people with so much fantastic work. This has democratized things, which is great. In the past, you had to be able to print postcards, have a decent-looking professional portfolio, and get yourself to New York City on a regular basis. That’s all changed now. 

I’ve found that in today’s publishing market, it is helpful having an agent. It allows me to focus more on the creative part, and less on the hustle. Anika (my wife and collaborator) and I share the same agent. Our relationship with our agent Emily Van Beek at Folio is a partnership and friendship. We know from experience that we’re in good hands, and that she’s got our back. She vets projects before they come to me. It helps.

HC: Do you have any advice for a young illustrator starting out?

CD: Instagram is amazing to get your work seen. My general advice is not that different [from how it would have been when I started]. Show work that you are excited about. Work that you’d be excited to do. Don’t show your potential clients what you think they will like, especially if you didn’t like doing it. Be true to your work and eventually you will find an audience. I’ve seen it happen. 

On the business side, besides showing work you can stand behind, there is a question that I always ask my students, “What is the one factor that might inhibit your Illustration career?”

When I ask my students, I get many answers. But the real answer is debt. Debt will keep you from taking those jobs that might pay less but be really good for your work. Debt can lock you in a place of fear and anxiety. It literally shuts down your creative side. I also talk about sleep.

HC: Amen! I thought is was all about money, and now I realize it’s about rest.

CD: Over the past few years I have become fascinated with neuroscience, creativity, and sleep. I want to make the most out of my time, and out of my life. Having a good work-life balance, running, exercising, getting enough rest, etc. is all good for my creative process. 

It was Ariana Huffington’s book on sleep that really got me thinking about this. She’s an amazing thinker and aggregator of information. She had gotten to the point where she’d convinced herself that she could exist as a creative person on four hours sleep a night, and it brought her to a breaking point-literally. She turned her focus to assessing her habits and where they’d gotten her, and wound up creating an amazing book. Another great resource, not on sleep specifically, but on creativity and finding stillness is David Lynch’s Catching the Big Fish. The audio edition is brilliant.

Teaching also helps me find balance by changing my headspace. That’s actually why I teach. Financially, teaching is not a big part of it, but in teaching you are learning. You have to approach someone else's artwork from a different perspective. Every time I teach, I come back to the studio a better artist for the experience. In fact, I just saw a quote pop into my inbox this morning from Gretchen Rubin quoting Octavia Butler “as habit is more dependable, continued learning is more dependable than talent.”

HC: Christopher, this has been wonderful. Thanks for sharing so much about your journey. It’s inspiring to hear the whole arc of it, and how you would advise a younger person in your field. Is there anything you have coming up that you want to share with everyone?

CD: Thank you. I have a book coming out in March. I’ve illustrated over 25 books, but this is the first one I've written and illustrated. It’s called Knight Owl.