Paddy Johnson: Real Talk on How to Succeed in the Arts

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Can you solve the art world’s problem’s for us in one sentence, Paddy?

“Ask for more.”

Paddy Johnson is a writer, educator and the founder of VVrkshop, an online platform designed to help artists and art professionals connect with other artists, get more shows, residencies and grants.  

In today’s episode, Paddy and I talk about some of the inherent problems facing professional artists today and why it’s so important to build a strong network and community when working as a career artist.  Paddy unlocks the real reason you should be sending a weekly newsletter, makes a startling confession, talks about her “24 hour fix,” and even makes me cry.

Also mentioned in today’s episode: 

• Conservatism in the art world 3:41

• Finding the right program for you as an artist 7:38

• Income inequality in the art world 12:00

• Why you should be asking for more money as an artist 16:36

• The importance of a network and community when working as an artist 22:01

• A good solution to art problems 26:30

• Confidence as an art professional 27:30

• The real key to why you should send out your weekly newsletter 31:00

• How to effectively network and build relationships 33:07

• Paddy’s confession 36:00

• VVrkshop and Netvvrk and the reason why Paddy started her programs 41:47

• The 24-hour fix 48:00

• Paddy makes me cry 49:00

If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review and share it.

Links:

W.A.G.E., Working Artists and the Greater Economy. 

Connect with Paddy: 

Paddy’s membership: https://www.vvrkshop.art/

Watch Paddy’s free class How to Get More Shows

Erika Hess: Podcasting, Art, Motherhood and Widening the Circle

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Links:

Erika’s work

Erika’s podcast

Erika’s membership

Money Story: Lex Ritchie

This interview has been edited for clarity.

Lex Ritchie is a tarot reader and folk magical educator. You can find more about their work at www.thelexritchie.com IG @thelexritchie

HC: Who are you, what are your pronouns, and what do you do?

I’m Lex Ritchie, I use they/them pronouns, and I’m a tarot reader and folk magical educator. I help folks connect to their magic so they can make change in their lives and in their world.

HC: What brought you to a place where you wanted to learn how to get your money stuff together?

LR: It was really starting my own business that prompted it. I’m not someone who has a ton of experience with money. I grew up working class, not affluent. For a large part of my adult life, I didn’t make enough money to have to file taxes. By the time I started a business, I had never filed taxes. The other half of my adult life was filled with bad tax experiences--I had terrible luck with taxes. One year my partner's employer was committing tax fraud. Another year a number was wrong on our W2, and caused an enormous headache, and another year I was paid differently because I was a grad student. 

I went from making too little to file to owing taxes every year after that. When I started my business, I needed to figure this out and know what I’m doing.

Like a lot of people who go from being poor to having some money, there’s this pain around that. There is a shame of not knowing. A shame that you have to know these things now. I needed to go into this business with my eyes open, not giving in to the past trauma or knee-jerk responses I had before. I wanted to build my business and grow it into something that can support me. I had to take responsibility towards my business, like taxes. I wanted to take personal responsibility towards that.

HC: Is there anything that being in Money Bootcamp has taught you, or that has changed for you?

LR: It’s funny. I’ve been a part of Money Bootcamp for two years. I wouldn't at any point have been able to pinpoint that I know these things or that my relationship to money is changing, until I was talking to a friend who is switching to contract work from full time employment, because she has a baby. And I’m like, “hey, there are these tax benefits, and she’s like hey, how do you know all this?”

The fact I pay my quarterly taxes, I’m in this position where I know enough to ask the right questions, I don’t have to just go along with it. I know enough to advocate for myself - it provides me with knowledge and not just garbled nonsense. 

I come from a science background. My major was in science communication, so I know a lot about communication.

One thing that comes from having greater financial literacy is that I, as someone who owns my own business, have to pay taxes out of my account every quarter. It’s not automatic. Better financial literacy means knowing when I have enough, and don’t. Budgeting. That’s been part of this larger effort in my life of how to navigate money. Because I have this thing--I didn’t have money growing up, so I never feel like I have enough. I’ve learned how to navigate what I need, earmark for savings, and figure what is ok. Both my partner and I are chronically ill. Figuring out that my partner will not be able to do his work forever. Ensuring ok-ness with that. Past baggage from not knowing when we had enough. 

It’s easy to hoard. That is the default. When you grew up feeling like you needed to hoard money, its easy to do, because there’s a cultural default. [Having a sense of enough-ness is] helping me live my values in that way.

Having enough: for me, when I was in engineering, I studied sustainability. Sustainability is important to me. One reason I left grad school is that when we talk about sustainability, we aren't’ critiquing the ways we talk about progress, money, and the economy. The ways those feed sustainability and feed structures of unsustainability. The same goes for money and my values--I value sustainability and abundance. There’s a ceiling to that. It looks different. It manifests differently for different people. I’m recognizing that sufficiency for myself. Growing up poor, when you're stuck in insufficiency for so long, it’s hard to recognize when you really do have enough. For me, numbers make sense. Seeing it in my numbers was helpful, and allowed me to see that it is sustainable, that I could share more, and that saving wasn’t just pointless--I was able to build a cushion.

HC: Is there anything else you’d like other people to know?

LR: Something I want to talk about is to shout out to you, and how amazingly you hold space for how complicated and stressful and wrapped up in trauma and injustice taxes are. 

When we had our conversation last year, I was like “I have perennial problems around taxes” and you were like “none of that is your fault.”

You can learn more about what Lex does at their website: https://thelexritchie.com/ 

Does Anyone Make a Living Doing Public Art? A Money Story with Liz LaManche

Liz LaManche (she/they) is an artist on a mission to add more color and fun to the world through big art in public places and small art in weird places.

Hannah Cole: Tell me about what brought you to a place where you wanted to learn more about taxes and getting your money organized.

Liz LaManche: I spent a bunch of years in software doing UX/UI consulting, so I had practice doing that, and getting decent rates, and doing contract negotiations, so that wasn’t the hard part. The hard part has been figuring out what artists get paid, and all that learning I talked to you about. Being avoidant about money in general. Not wanting to know my budget, not keeping track of receipts, even though at the end of the year I had this big terrible accounting project of tallying all my receipts. 

You’re the first person who has been able to teach me in a calm, accessible way. I had old men accountants who said they would teach me, but then actually just asked for my numbers which they would just enter into their system. When I would ask them questions, they would say, “Just read the instructions on the form.”
The fact that you’re able to realize in a psychological way what is going on with people, gently and realistically, has been really nice.

This was part of a program I set myself where I was intending to get better at the financial thing, and set myself up better. I’m examining, “What are my attitudes? What is keeping me from getting specific? From actually tackling this stuff?” You helped with the specifics--as in, here’s how to do this and that.

I think psychologically, I bounce between overfunctioning and underfunctioning. I can’t deal, and then I bounce back. I have a tendency to want to get everything done perfectly, then I can’t deal anymore. You’ve been very helpful about putting it all in perspective. You say, if you improve one thing, you’re headed in the right direction. It doesn’t need to be all perfect immediately. 

I would go from ignoring my receipts for months, to “I have to enter every 50 cent coffee I ever get into this spreadsheet.”

HC: What did you observe in your transition from consulting work to the art world?

LL: Being up front with clear communication took practice. I got good at writing contracts that were basically in English that people normally speak, but take care of contingencies that both parties actually care about. You need to spell it all out in an understandable way, and to have it covered in a contract. A lot of my artwork is commissions and consulting.

HC: So you really have to use contracts for that. 

LL: Yeah. You have to lay out what is going to be done in this project.

HC: Can you describe your art?

LL: I’m doing public art and murals. I’m also working with an organization that helps cities and towns work on their pedestrian access, safer streets, bikeways, and designing asphalt art. I make artistic crosswalks, intersections, and pathways. I get to use my architecture background, making urban environments more beautiful, and sustaining human beings. It has been helpful coming from being an architecture major. First, you have to figure out what the client wants and needs, and what environment the client is in. Then you design something bespoke to solve those problems and make something that is both beautiful and usable within its environment and neighborhood. 

Business skills have helped a lot in the project work I’m doing. Being able to form a relationship with clients where they feel taken care of, and they are sure I know what I’m doing, because I approach things like a pro, I know what the issues are, and I can get them a solution that works for them. I show up and behave like a professional. People dealing with artists are a bit afraid about that.

HC: Has there been anything particularly helpful that you have learned?

LL: I had some habits that helped me already. I can do math, I had business bank accounts, I can use spreadsheets. But others you helped me a lot with were--I couldn’t face my receipts, and keep a running tally of what was going on. I couldn’t look at my actual financial situation. I would just try to get money coming in and hope that things worked out. Then I would panic if the account balance got too low. 

Following your program, I’ve been able to get a handle on things, know where I’m at, develop some good habits (if not make and stick to an actual plan). Things like getting more methodical about putting money aside, being able to check on it, that sort of thing. Being able to get on top of the quarterly tax thing, and what I should be doing taxwise, has made me a lot happier and calmer. 

HC: That stuff provokes so much anxiety.

LL: It’s just astonishing that no other tax person has gotten me to do quarterlies ever.

HC: I’m so proud

LL: One of the things I’m working on now is trying to learn more about what artists are getting paid, in my field and in others. I want to learn more about what’s realistic. Because there’s so much secrecy around money all the time. That doesn’t serve us well.

I spent some time in circus performance doing aerial dance, and there’s a lot of talk there about “charge what you’re worth” and “don’t undercut others,” and how to get people a living wage.

The same is true in performance. There’s the thing or service you’re selling, and then there’s the years of work and study that made you good at doing that thing. There's more overhead than people expect.

I would love for art to be a sustainable thing for more people. Because it's such an important thing for our culture, and for being able to sustain ourselves as a society.

There’s awe and beauty--those uplifting feelings. In public art, too - you’re getting beautiful things out to people who are just getting through their day, in what would otherwise be a dull streetscape. It might make their day better.

I’ve heard about people quoting extremely low rates, basically doing things for free. That’s problematic because it leads to that being the expectation. And there should be a graduated scale based on your experience, and the type of work and that sort of thing. But that’s the question that we run into in circus arts, too. There has to be a place for people to start, but people commissioning work need to realize there’s a difference in the final quality, too.

I’m hoping that there is a tier for professional artists to stay professional and make a career of it.

People look at me as someone who is successful, because I’ve done projects that are known around town. [But I’m still wondering], “Does anyone get a living wage doing public art?”

Money Story - Christopher Denise: Building Habits and Space to Focus on Your Creative Work

Christopher Denise (he/him) is an illustrator, writer, teacher, and lecturer. He has illustrated many critically acclaimed books for young readers including Alison McGhee’s Firefly Hollow, Rosemary Wells’ Following Grandfather, Anne Marie Pace’s Groundhug Day, as well as several in Brian Jacques’s Redwall series. Christopher lives with his wife and collaborator, Anika Denise, and their family on the coast of Rhode Island.

HC: Who are you, what are your pronouns, and what do you do?

CD: My name is Christopher Denise, my pronouns are him/his and I am an illustrator in primarily kids’ literature, and an educator. I teach in various programs. I have taught at RISD, in undergrad illustration, where I also attended, and recently in a Master’s program at Holland’s University. This Fall I am teaching at Montserrat College of Art.

HC: How did you get into the world of illustrating?

CD: I had been studying archeology and art history at St. Lawrence University. That led to studio classes and a greater interest in making my own imagery. Around that time I visited my brother at Rhode Island School of Design and found that the level of conversation there was completely different. I applied as a transfer student initially into the architecture department because I had no idea what an illustrator was. But when I got to RISD, I started taking illustration classes, and it was really satisfying. I liked telling stories with images, not particularly for kid lit [kid’s literature]—I just liked being a visual communicator. In my junior year I started freelancing, creating work for newspapers and educational publishers (textbooks). After graduation some of those images caught the attention of an editor in New York. 

HC: That’s a big lucky break. Can you explain more how you got in front of that critical editor?

CD: I did promotion. I sent out mailings and dropped off my portfolio at various publishers. I was very fortunate, because I ended up working with this editor for years.

Our first book together was The Fool of The World and the Flying Ship. That was a breakthrough moment. It was daunting, because the illustrator who had created a version of the story a few years prior had won a Caldecott Award. My version also got a good amount of attention. It got  starred reviews. I did interviews and book signings. But it didn’t sell many copies. The upside of good press but not a lot of sales was that was it allowed me to continue to work in “relative obscurity.” If The Fool of the World had been a huge financial success, and I had felt compelled to reproduce it, it could have been disastrous. Creative endeavors are challenging, but when they change because of the financial piece, it can change your relationship with the creative process. If you’re not connected with the work, but you’re making money, that can be challenging. 

HC: For a lot of creative people with amazing careers like yours, there is a Critical Moment. Can you talk more about how that happened for you?

CD: A part of it was luck, which is always nice. But I was ready. I was ready to take advantage of that opportunity. I had developed a practice and a discipline, so when opportunity arose, I could capitalize on it. I diversified my workflow so I could take on a project that was more time-consuming and less profitable. [It allowed me to] Be ready for an interesting opportunity. 

That led to me being introduced to Brian Jacques, the author of the Redwall series. He wrote a picture book for me to illustrate. It offered me another chance to grow my work artistically. 

In regard to the financial part—I was being paid more, so [ironically] I paid less attention to the business side of things. I was single, with no family, so I could do that. One thing I did do, against the advice of some family members, was invest in buying a house, which turned out to be a good decision. But I was working all the time and lacked balance. 

Having a successful career in the arts is not a static goal. It’s not something that you “achieve.” You develop a practice. Something that Sunlight Tax articles and Money Bootcamp talks have highlighted that resonated with me is that getting on top of your money is also a practice. Financial literacy is not just a tool that fixes things, it is a structure. My Uncle Frank used to tell this joke, “I bought this trunk organizer. I threw it the trunk two weeks ago, and damn if I looked in there yesterday, and this whole thing is still a mess.” So, in other words, you have to actively apply sound financial practices to your creative life. 

A practice builds empowerment, and as a result, freedom. Who doesn’t want freedom in their life? It allows time to focus on what gives you purpose in life. That looks like many things: a chance to support causes and people you believe in, a chance to spend more time with friends and family, and a chance to produce non-commercial work.

A career in Illustration is not a sprint, but a marathon. You need a structure. You need to a map that breaks the steps in the journey down so you know what to do, and when. It makes everything feel a lot more achievable. And it helps you get back on track if you go off in the weeds.

In the past, I would approach my project and finances without the map—I would barrel into the work and block out the rest of my life. I would get paid, and then retire all my debt. That felt great for about a week after I had finished. But that was fleeting, because new bills would arise, and a new cycle would start again. This led to both artistic and financial burnout.

HC: Something I see in so many of my Money Bootcamp members is that one of the key things that money allows is the space to rest. Can you talk about this idea of hustle vs. rest?

CD: A family will force you to take breaks from work! I’m married to a writer, so we do a lot of balancing. In the past I felt as though if I was not working, I was not working at being paid. That was frightening, because projects were long, and there was no sense of where I was financially. 

Now that I have more structure, I feel more comfortable taking some time off. I’ve become more efficient. When I get to the studio it’s “go time.” I know why I’m there, and what I'm supposed to be working on. I allow for mistakes. I can do that because I have a production schedule.

I have a few friends who are 8-10 years my senior, and are top-level character designs for animation. They warned me about burnout and that definitely caused me to pump the brakes a bit. I love illustration too much to let that happen. Nevertheless, I made some bad decisions, like passing up a trip to go back to Ireland to visit with family friends because I was on a deadline. When we had kids, I didn't want to miss that time. So much so that I took some capital from a book that did well, and built a studio here on my property, so I could be around. That allowed me more time with the kids but also forced me to really structure and balance my time.

So much of the world now [because of Covid and working from home] is getting a glimpse into that kind of balance.

Now when I’m having a good painting day, when there is flow, I’m ready. It’s a funny thing though—everyone develops their own studio practice. In the past, if someone said, “you have to do it this way,” there’s a pretty good chance I wouldn’t do it. But if they engage me and ask, “Here’s a project, how do you want to approach it?” then I’m all in. I’m independent or maybe just stubborn!

HC: A lot of creative worlds have their own unique and unspoken assumptions. Grant Conversano, a filmmaker in Money Bootcamp, was describing in a recent interview the unspoken codes they felt in the filmmaking world. Are there codes like this in the illustrating world?

CD: Yes. That you should get an agent. That’s how you get better contracts and get seen. I did not take that route for fifteen years of my career. I met independently with publishers and negotiated my own contracts. This was helpful in some ways—I knew what I was getting into.
It used to be that you sent out postcards, got in touch with people, and dropped off your portfolio. That aspect of the business is so different now. Within an afternoon you can get your website up and running and out there. Because of that, the market is flooded. There are so many people with so much fantastic work. This has democratized things, which is great. In the past, you had to be able to print postcards, have a decent-looking professional portfolio, and get yourself to New York City on a regular basis. That’s all changed now. 

I’ve found that in today’s publishing market, it is helpful having an agent. It allows me to focus more on the creative part, and less on the hustle. Anika (my wife and collaborator) and I share the same agent. Our relationship with our agent Emily Van Beek at Folio is a partnership and friendship. We know from experience that we’re in good hands, and that she’s got our back. She vets projects before they come to me. It helps.

HC: Do you have any advice for a young illustrator starting out?

CD: Instagram is amazing to get your work seen. My general advice is not that different [from how it would have been when I started]. Show work that you are excited about. Work that you’d be excited to do. Don’t show your potential clients what you think they will like, especially if you didn’t like doing it. Be true to your work and eventually you will find an audience. I’ve seen it happen. 

On the business side, besides showing work you can stand behind, there is a question that I always ask my students, “What is the one factor that might inhibit your Illustration career?”

When I ask my students, I get many answers. But the real answer is debt. Debt will keep you from taking those jobs that might pay less but be really good for your work. Debt can lock you in a place of fear and anxiety. It literally shuts down your creative side. I also talk about sleep.

HC: Amen! I thought is was all about money, and now I realize it’s about rest.

CD: Over the past few years I have become fascinated with neuroscience, creativity, and sleep. I want to make the most out of my time, and out of my life. Having a good work-life balance, running, exercising, getting enough rest, etc. is all good for my creative process. 

It was Ariana Huffington’s book on sleep that really got me thinking about this. She’s an amazing thinker and aggregator of information. She had gotten to the point where she’d convinced herself that she could exist as a creative person on four hours sleep a night, and it brought her to a breaking point-literally. She turned her focus to assessing her habits and where they’d gotten her, and wound up creating an amazing book. Another great resource, not on sleep specifically, but on creativity and finding stillness is David Lynch’s Catching the Big Fish. The audio edition is brilliant.

Teaching also helps me find balance by changing my headspace. That’s actually why I teach. Financially, teaching is not a big part of it, but in teaching you are learning. You have to approach someone else's artwork from a different perspective. Every time I teach, I come back to the studio a better artist for the experience. In fact, I just saw a quote pop into my inbox this morning from Gretchen Rubin quoting Octavia Butler “as habit is more dependable, continued learning is more dependable than talent.”

HC: Christopher, this has been wonderful. Thanks for sharing so much about your journey. It’s inspiring to hear the whole arc of it, and how you would advise a younger person in your field. Is there anything you have coming up that you want to share with everyone?

CD: Thank you. I have a book coming out in March. I’ve illustrated over 25 books, but this is the first one I've written and illustrated. It’s called Knight Owl.